The following is an interview conducted by Annette Yang on behalf of iykyk.careers. iykyk.careers is a blog for students and early career professionals that want to make their mark on the product landscape.

Engineering, Product, & Climate Activism

Hi there 👋 — Who are you and what’s your background?

Hi! My name is Raiid and my professional background starts from when I went to Penn State University and got my degree in Mechanical Engineering. My previous internship/work experiences were in the natural gas generator industry. I got software engineering know-how from classes and research.

From there on, I became a Software Engineer at AMEX in 2021 after I graduated. It seemed like a better career path for me as there were more opportunities in that field compared to the oil and gas industry. After working in engineering at AMEX for a year I realized I was missing out on collaborative work. So, my friend introduced me to product management. I shadowed him and ultimately decided to do an internal transfer to a product management role. However, I work in tech product management, so I still work on an engineering team.

Outside of my day job, I also do climate activism, specifically in advocacy for the area's carbon removal. I'm also working on building tech infrastructure for a climate tech networking group. For more info, visit openaircollective.cc and nyclimatetech.substack.com!

Structure for Entry-Level PMs

For those who are unfamiliar, how is the program structured and run?

The position I’m in is a learning position for entry-level product managers but doesn’t really follow a structured program as compared to say, the Google APM program or other APM-specific programs. There is no one process for graduating from the program after a specific tenure. It's more like a grind of applying and getting promoted to a new job.

Expectations & Adjustments

Is there anything the landing page doesn't tell us about the APM program?

As a software engineer, I had my work cut out for me. I handled tickets and, although you're expected to be creative and come up with new ideas, for the most part, what you do in the day is given to you in discrete tasks. Going into the PM role, I figured that since I’m still learning, I don’t have to lead the product yet. So, I assumed my manager would provide me with most of the tests I would be doing in a day. That was not true. I was surprised that the role was very undefined and I had to spend a lot of time self-searching and learning about the product to see where there were gaps that I could fill. I basically made a lot of my own tests.

And then, there's strict prioritization which entails marking everything that you do down because you're responsible for many different work streams at the same time. This made me anxious at points because I have to make sure to not forget anything, take notes on literally everything, and know how to prioritize. Some things are more important than others, but you must make that distinction for yourself.

That also folds into another thing I needed to adjust to, which was the fact that your output is hard to measure discreetly. A lot of times, your contribution is taking meetings, making it easier for other people to do their jobs, or providing long-term strategy. That stuff is tough to quantify. So, it's up to you to be able to quantify that and take down notes for when you want to move up or prove to leadership that your product is performing better than it was a couple of months ago.

Making the Right Connections

What do you think made you stand out as an applicant and is there a recruitment strategy that nobody is doing right now, but should be?

I internally transferred from an engineering role into a PM role. And personally, I think a lot of it was just being in the right place at the right time while making personal connections. Don't get me wrong, I did do a lot of stuff to make this happen. Mainly I was constantly scheduling coffee chats and making professional connections. But for me, it was actually my non-professional connections that helped me out. I'm really into running and climbing and in AMEX, there's a huge running culture. I met my current VP through some of the AMEX workouts. And then later on, when I was applying for PM positions, I saw that she was VP of the position that I was applying to. So, I messaged her and she looked over my application and ended up being one of the people who interviewed me, which definitely helped. And then, there was a similar situation with climbing; I had a climbing buddy early on at Amex when I was still an engineer before I was even thinking about product management. Later on, as I became interested in PM, I remembered him and shadowed him for a bit and he connected me to my current role. So I'd say it's a strategy of planting seeds with the right people and being first in line for whatever job opens up.

However, this stuff only gets you to the interview stage; you still have to do a lot of studying. For me, that studying came down to the “Cracking the PM Interview” book. It's a short book, but it's good because it's not just about the interview but also the history of the PM. And then there’s mock interviewing, practicing, and also just getting excited about PM by thinking about the kind of products you would design. I think mechanical engineering helped me with that because I'm used to building, designing, and doing user interviews.

Salary Expectations

What sort of salary should program participants expect, and what does the salary progression look like once you’ve graduated from the program?

For me, it's a little bit skewed because I came in with an engineer’s salary, so my salary looked a little higher since they weren’t going to take down my salary. But, I've noticed most entry-level associates in PM at AMEX make around 80K-90K with around a 7% bonus. At tech companies, I'd say an associate can expect around 110K-115K or so, but AMEX is a bit different since it's FinTech. I think a general rule of thumb is just imagining what the company would pay a developer and then minus, 15% from that.

Post-APM Plans, MBA, Startups

What’s your next play after graduating from this program and how has this program impacted your 5-10 year career plan?

I think it’s important to have a specific structure in your head, especially with PM since there are so many different routes that you can go with it. There are an endless amount of routes, literally, because of how transferable the skill set is. That was one of the reasons why I wanted to pursue PM as well. My general plan right now is to keep this job at AMEX for as long as I can and learn and grow into it. I will possibly do an internal transfer for the next level, but I do want to stay here because it's a really good company with a very laid-back but friendly culture. And by laid back I mean the fact that you don't have to wear a suit to the office, but people are all motivated in what they do. So, I definitely want to stick around here and learn as much as possible.

I envision looking for a full PM role (Junior level) and trying to make that switch by the end of 2023, or early 2024. I also want to increase my involvement and connections in the areas that interest me through my nonprofit involvement. And after being a product manager for a year, or two years, and once I have a good financial base established, I intend to possibly get an MBA. Thinking long-term, like a 10-15 year horizon, I imagine joining an early-stage startup or even starting my own company. I also really care about the climate tech industry, so that's where I see my long-term career heading.